people are worried about that. another big question, what do the rebels have? opposition forces have taken some libyan army assets including anti-tank missiles, shoulder-fired sur far fast-to-air missiles. tanks and guns. nato discusses what to do next, that's it for us tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. "in the arena" starts right now. good evening. i'm eliot spitzer. welcome to the program. will the world stop in to spop the bloodshed in libya? more on that in a moment. what are you guys working on tonight? >> i have a question of libya. you are asking when. i'm asking why. the conversation across the nation and at this table has been about the logistics of a no-fly zone and the legal

consequences of military action. but why? why intervene militarily in libya. it's a simple question but i haven't heard the answer yes. >> the voice of isolationism. that's why i love conservatives on the show. what do you think about tonight? >> you'll hear something you have heard before. the president just signed an executive order that's deja vu all over again as they say. it says prisoners at guantanamo bay can be tried in military tribunals and sounds kind of familiar. >> it is, indeed. right back with president george w. bush and not what he wanted to do. >> uh-huh. >> anyway, back to libya. when revolution hit tunisia and egypt, we thought the changes would happen overnight but libya is a wake-up call. this is a civil war. tonight, we hear word of a death toll somewhere in the thousands and the calls for no-fly zone may grow as we see more pictures

of what happened today. the forces bombed the oil town of ras lanuf. meanwhile, ground fighting continued in other areas. we go now to tripoli where nic robertson has the latest on gadhafi's push to secure areas around the libyan capital. what's the latest? >> reporter: the government has a lockdown on the city making it more interesting walking a few hundred yards from the hotel and talk to people. they're angry at this government, they say they want to rise up and all of supporters are the ones with the weapons which is what we saw on sunday when they were out celebrating some victories the government said they had to that didn't occur and it's very clear the fear of the opposition here in tripoli is that the gadhafi supporter haves the weapons and we have seen that they do. people are telling us they want gadhafi to go and need to overthrow him but he's a terrorist ruining their lives. those are the -- that's the an mos if i that we hear in the

city. outside in zawiya where the government said it took control a few days ago we found a completely different story today outside that town and actually inside the town about a mile from where the rebels were. we could hear heavy anti-aircraft gun fire, small arms fire, hear the detonation of heavy artillery in the city. and this is a place that the government said it controls, they say only a couple hundred or less rebels. yet, with the army they haven't been able to take it down yet and this gives an indication i think beyond tripoli, through the rest of the country, just how big and sustained a long war this country seems to be edging into right now. >> zawiya, a little bit to the west of tripoli, still pitched battles and the gadhafi government not able to regain control and then, of course, go to the east with benghazi and under the control of the opposition force. that is not in dispute anymore. >> reporter: not at all. what's happened close to there

or within a couple of hundred miles, the rebels have lost one town but they have managed to hold on to two others important oil towns they have taken control of. supply lines would essentially run along the coast. they don't have ammo. they'd be exposed to the air forces, helicopters, et cetera. circling maneuver by the army and what we can see is the army is just not that strong, just not that capable of fighting in an urban environment and that's working against gadhafi right now. it means it he has no quick solution to defeat the enemy here. >> if there's any one request that you hear of the opposition forces or the civilians in tripoli who are desperate to get out from under the control of gadhafi, what is it they want of the west? >> reporter: in tripoli, it would be weapons. they need weapons, that's why they can't rise up. they say gadhafi support eres have all the weapons and that why they're afraid of rising up.

it would be a blood bath if it happened in the city because it's a tightly-packed urban environment of 2 million people, one third of the country's population and that's what would help them, they say. >> thank you for that report and chat with you later on. thanks so much. the drum beat towards a no-fly zone has grown louder and louder. joining us is someone urging the u.s. to arm rebels. bill richardson, the former democratic governor of new mexico served as u.s. ambassador to the u.n. and energy secretary in the clinton white house. governor, welcome to the show. we're all firing questions at you so get ready and strap on the seat belts. >> all right. i'm ready. >> let me throw the first one at you. i'm with you on the no-fly zone concept. explain to the public why a no-fly zone, when's the justification, political, ethical, military. why do you favor it? >> well, i favor it

internationally recognized it should be done. u.s. leadership but through nato. why? to intervene and averting a huge humanitarian crisis caused by gadhafi wanting to maintain control and making a carnage of his own people. there's also energy supply routes. libya is a major energy producer and responsibilities to western nations, to america. gas prices. i think the main reason is humanitarian. this is strategic part out mediterranean. i think we also as america needs to associate ourselves with a democratic protester movements that are emerging in the middle east, in egypt and bahrain. all across the middle east and yemen.ening now in libya. it is in the security interest to be associated with this kind of important political change, and america stands for values,

for democracy and this is the best way to express it. >> governor richardson, will cane here. i have been asking this question as eliot suggested. why? why should we go in to libya and intervene there? you suggested the plain rain is humanitarian purposes. bodies are piling up. mass graves dug. refugees are fleeing out of the country and a dictator not bending to the will of the people but the situation is going on in the ivory coast and trying to figure out what exactly is special about libya, why are we going to libya? >> well, i think in the ivory coast you've got a situation where there's a president who is unwilling to leave. yes, there's been violence but not the scale of libya where there's a human carnage, where there's thousands. where you have the united states -- i think in a position of exercising not just military but political and humanitarian leadership. i think we have been doing that

-- >> is there a scale that i'm aware of? you say there's thousands of lib libya. when's the threshold? where's the point to take action? >> the threshold is first you try to resolve problems through diplomatic means and the ivory coast, i think the issue is finding a way to get that ill legitimate president out. with the organization of african unity and others, first, look, you have to proceed with diplomatic, political action. and the if all else fails you proceed with some kind of military action. i think what we have here in libya is unparalleled. you have a dictator who wants to stay on, killing his own people, who's thumbing his nose at the international community. who's violating united nations and all kinds of international agreements. you have massive human rights violations and what we need to

do i believe is in concert with other countries, the threshold is get the international community abe in this case nato, this is an out of area conflict. to provide leadership, to provide humanitarian supplies to those that are dispossessed a fleeing. to possibly in my view arm the rebels in a way that is not direct by american ground forces. i'm not for american ground forces. but i think in a covert fashion and a no-fly zone i believe can be done with international legitimacy through nato. they're debating it right now. britain, france, italy. with american support. we're already conducting a lot of those refugee air lifts, providing food, supplies. and i think eventually it will take providing some kind of military assistance to the rebels. >> i would like to tap into your experience as the energy take. i'm an american that tries to get through the problems of

america. i have a 17-year-old that can't afford a big mac let alone filling the new car with gas. what about the plan to tap into the oil reserves? because the gas prices are just shooting up like you can't believe. >> well, e.d. i was energy secretary president clinton and asked me to tap the reserve with a home heating crisis in the northeast. we didn't sell barrels of oil. we put them up on the market. i think here's a case where you signal to tap the reserve, oil prices are going to go down. you mix up and confuse opec countries that many times are going to do very little to increase production so prices go down. opec wants prices to stay up. and so i think it would be an important disruption of the market that would work to the advantage of consumers in europe and asia and in the united states. so i'm for it. i would do it right away. >> governor, i want to come back

to the no-fly zone. my response to will is there's other cases where we should have intervened because that is the responsibility of the superpower fraught with risk and where there's genocide, mass murder that is something that the league of nations but we as a group of nations should do. i want to ask this, though, about the no-fly zone. the only argument is the gadhafi revolution is run or waged by outside irs. is there a way to do this to make it clear this is at the request of the indigenous population, the revolution or in concert with other arab leaders saying, yes, we are asking for assistance of the united states, france, italy, whomever it may be? >> this is where i think the united states is acting very prudently. we are trying to get nato today to get a resolution that proceeds with a no-fly zone.

in addition to that, i believe discussions are taking place with the organization of african unity. african countries. the arab league. the president said this is something that the surrounding nations should join. i think the main signal of a no-fly zone, has to be done carefully and i agree with those cautionary notes from our military, that if you do a no-fly zone with international legitimacy, approved by nato, possibly with a u.n. resolution, it also sends another important political signal to gadhafi's military forces that, hey, the international community is not with you. we're with the rebels. we want to find a way out for gadhafi to get out and it's only going to intensify the international community banding together and finding a way to help the rebels achieve the democracy that they deserve. the oustinging of gadhafi. the end of the humanitarian

carnage. the enormous human toll that's taking place there. >> governor, one other thing you touched on. you have gone beyond the no-fly zone and suggested go about arming the rebels in libya. now, do you know something about these rebels perhaps that i or others don't? from what i can tell, we know vrl little about what they want and where they want to take the government. we have the experience of arming afghanistan and arming bin laden. how do we go about that prudently? >> well, first of all, you have to do this, i believe, through an authorized covert action program. i don't believe you need to do this openly. now secondly, there's been the suggestion of the national security adviser of former president bush of air lifts to provide supplies and weapons to some of the rebels. i think that is something that should take place in the days ahead. it is a day-to-day situation.

i think eventually, will, you want to be on the side of those that want democracy, human rights, that want to oust a dick d taylor. it has to be with the concert of the allies and international community. the more african countries, north african countries involved the better. the organization of african qul unity. the only entities that seem to be with gadhafi today are zimbabwe and he may go into exile and possibly venezuela. even saudi arabia said they won't take him if he asks for asylum. he tried to knock off the royal saudi family. he is really isolated and i think it's a case where it's important that the international community led by the u.s. -- and i think president obama's doing a good job in moving very everything in the right direction. military assistance. humanitarian assistance. diplomatic asis tan. moral assistance.

and hopefully it will end soon. >> all right. governor, thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you. coming up, is this the obama white house or as eliot suggested earlier the third term of george w. bush? it's getting harder and harder to tell the difference. we have that story next. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes.

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e.d. and will, what i'm about to say makes you happy but me very depressed. looking at the third term of president george w. bush. president obama announced that military commissions at guantanamo bay will be used prosecute alleged terrorists. it's business as usual. joining us is senior legal analyst jeff toobin. our legal maven here at cnn. jeff, maybe justify this? did he have any other options? >> you're being too tough on the president. he promised that guantanamo would be closed by the end of the obama administration. and that's true. unfortunately, it's the sasha obama administration that this is going to be -- look. this is a fiasco from the day one when he made thrash promise to close guantanamo.

i think the -- >> well meaning promise? >> i guess so. only well meaning if you follow through. but the -- the three categories of prisoners. there are some that will be tried in american criminal courts, some many military commissions and the third category which is really the toughest of all which is they'll be held and not enough evidence to try them and so they'll have the sort of temporary trial-like proceedings but basically keep them forever. >> this is like the miss america thing. they want world peace. the president came in like a lot of presidents i'm sure would do and said it would be lovely to close this but the reality is common sense. they didn't have an option. i'm going to do this and now they have to eat their words. >> wait, wait, wait. it's more than this. he said it's a rallying cry and harmful and damaging symbol for the united states and the world. eliot's not being too hard on the president, is he, jeffrey?

>> no. this is terribly mismanaged by the obama administration. they made this announcement that khalid shaikh mohammed would be tried in lower manhattan without clearing it with mike bloomberg the mayor, the police commissioner kelly. chuck schumer as loyal a supporter as the president has rejected the idea of a trial in lower manhattan out of hand and politically and legally hamstrung. >> let me take the defense at some point. here's what -- when i say it was a well-meaning promise, he then encountered unbelievable local political opposition even to the very notion of taking terrorists and keeping them in the highest, most secure federal detention centers anywhere in the domestic united states. nobody wanted them here in the country as if the mere presence makes the prison a site of potential terrorist activity. we have mass murderers, genocidal prisoners.

that's what prisons are more. he department have an argument against it. he ran up against domestic political opposition that really lost sight of what was at stake here. >> i think you're right. he did. the question which we'll never know is if he acted with a better political ear if they had gone to the mike bloombergs of the world and said, look, we'll do the following. how can we make you comfortable so that you don't come out against it immediately? this is what good politicians do. barack obama is usually a good politician. he has a lot on the plate. this really slipped through the cracks. >> lawyers look at. this i'm no lawyer like the rest of everybody at this table but i thought people in the country you have to give them access to the witnesses and the documents, give them all of these things which when push came to shove we didn't want to do because it jeopardized national security. wasn't that the biggest problem? >> one of the problems but i'm not sure it's a flaw in the plan that would have been meaningful.

khalid shaikh mohammed, remember, khalid shaikh mohammed indicted -- osama bin laden indicted in lower manhattan but 9/11. the american legal system thought it could deal with them before this situation and i'm not sure they couldn't but politically it just became possible. >> another element of this that i think is lost in the mix between the distinction of a military tribunal and military trial and on our traditional criminal system, the differences are smaller than most people think. some of the core constitutional rights still attach in a military tribunal as they should. and it is not so clear when you look back at the record that it is easier to get a conviction in a military tribunal than in a civilian criminal context and i think the record there is murky. i think the legal issues are ambiguous and the president as much as i was hard on him at the top trying to do the right thing. >> jeffrey, tell me, it's a prediction.

will khalid shaikh mohammed now go on a military tribunal trial? >> yes. and be executed at the end of it. i don't think there's any doubt about that. the evidence is overwhelming starting with the confession. it's not like -- >> how soon to see that trial? >> how soon? don't hold your breath. this system moved very, very slowly. he is not going anywhere. i'm -- we're talking five years. >> isn't the more probing question whether that same result would have occurred in a traditional criminal context? i think the answer is, yes. i think that is where the tension between the two which is caused a lot of political excitement is much smaller than the people think. >> that's right. remember, there was one of the guantanamo prisoners just moved to the southern district of new york, lower manhattan. he was tried and acquitted of some charges, convicted of one and sentenced to life. the system worked. >> ate with a second. if it's so similar and so few differences between what would happen there and here, then why did the president issue the

executive order? >> because it became politically impossible. >> just politics? >> i think -- >> diminishing it a little bit but yes. congress acted in a way to preclude him from bringing most of the prisoners back for trial but the differences are not that great. and the outcome will be justice in either context and an important point. >> my argument to start with -- >> the third category is troubling. 172 people in guantanamo now. we don't know how many fit into each category but the category of people we're saying you can hold them forever without any kind of trial without a commission, without a criminal trial, that's morally, legally, ethically troubling and we have not heard the last about that category of people. >> that's right. all right. anyway, thank you, jeff, for that always incisive analysis and the issue will come back and haunt us at a certain level. coming up, believe it or not, there's a presidential campaign event going on in iowa.

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in i want to, the countdown to the country's first presidential caucus begins as five likely gop candidates take the stage at the faith and freedom coalition spring kickoff. it is the first major campaign event in the advance of the caucus scheduled for next february. the field so far, they're all there tonight and right now we go live to listen to republican newt gingrich who's just begun his address. >> describing his grandchild. i have two grandchildren, maggie who's 11 and robert who's 9 and i do think one of the central issues of our dialogue over the next few years is what kind of a country do we want to leave to

our children and grandchildren? for me, the turning point is the 9th circuit court decided in 2002 to -- that it was unconstitutional to say "one nation under god" in a school in the pledge of allegiancallegian. i decided and it was parallel to lincoln about slavery, i decided that if we now have judges so out of touch with america that they have no clue what this country was based on, we need a political change so deep and so profound that nothing we have seen in our lifetime is comparable to the level of depth we have to go to get this country back on the right track. [ applause ] let me be very clear about this. since 1952, we have won nine

presidential elections for republicans and democrats won six. but denight the fact that republicans were in the white house for 50% more time than democrats we did not at a fundamental level change the power of the left, the bureaucracies, we didn't change the biases of the judiciary and over that period they have all gotten worse, moved further to the left and became more alienated from the american system. now -- that requires a fundamental conversation that believes i believe with american exceptionalism and a very simple question. do you believe that this country because of the declaration of independence and the constitution is a fundamentally exceptional system for human liberty or do you believe we are a normal country like every place else in the world? now, it's a very profound

question. when there was a movie of pope john paul ii and the impact of the nine-day trip in 1979. we called it nine days that changed the world we discovered that one of the great weapons that the poles had was a sign of solidarity, i have a copy of the original sign in my office. they printed thousands of these. and it said, for poland to remain poland 2 plus 2 must always equal 4. it may not seem like much to you but it may be the most important political slogan of the next 25 years because it comes down to the question of truth. lincoln said if a man can convince you that 2 plus 2 equals anything but 4 then you can't possibly win the argument because facts don't matter. there was in the novel "the plague" there are times when a man can be killed when saying that 2 plus 2 equals 4 because

the authority can't stand the truth. we hold these truths to be self evident. we hold these truths. what are the truths? that we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. [ applause ] now, why does that matter? because it means the power comes from god to each one of you personally. you are personally sovereign. you loan power to the government. the government does not loan power to you and that is the fundamental division between most americans and the secular socialist people around obama and the degree to which they do not understand america, cannot possibly represent america and cannot lead us to a successful future. [ applause ]

and let me just say. morality applies across the board. morality is as important in economics where having the right to get a job to take care of your family, donate to the re religious organization, have a sense of dignity and worth. it matters in economics because balancing the budget is a moral not economic question about whether or not politicians ought to have to follow the same rules as the rest of us so there should be no distinction between economic, national security and social conservatives. we should all base our principles on fundamental questions of morality. >> all right. i got to tell you guys. i could enjoy listening to him because so much of what he says is crazy and outlandish and fascinating in his own way and see what he snuck in there. the secular socialist people so you shoulding obama. in other words -- >> i don't think he snuck it in there. right out there. >> wasn't meant to be a big

line. it's interpretation of the first amendment. the 9th circuit, okay, all building up to the other point. secular socialist people surrounding obama. not just that they're godless according to gingrich, they're socialists. he is branding the president who is trying to balance the budget and save capitalism from the sort of tell newt gingrich 2 plus 2 equals 4, he department believe that as speaker of the house. barack obama is doing everything to save capitalism, save the freedom and calling them secular socialists. >> he wrote a good letter to the editor on sunday talking about balancing the budget and forcing the hand of the president to do that. i think what i take away from watching this is -- we all agree that he's a very intelligent guy and he does a good job communicating to people. what i think -- >> obama? or gingrich? barack obama, clearly. newt gingrich, smart. not impressed by this.

>> what you are seeing is a precursor to see in the campaign and not so much, i don't think, about the social issues, you know, abortion plank. that sort of thing. i think it is going to be the economics and took life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and talking about why that matters so much in terms of the presidential race. the ability to pursue happiness, go after your own dreams, not the government do it for you. >> i think you are exactly right. that is precursor to see. what we'll see in the republican primary. this event, the faith and freedom event and the thing that is newt were saying is going to be that precursor and that is, there is this tension between social conservatism and fiscal conservatism and symbolized by mitch daniels and mike huckabee who i expect might be there and we have a grand debate going on in this country about what's the future of the american government and what is the relationship with the people? on the one hand, we have a president in my view that you were talking about who's moving us towards a european welfare

state and we have people that believe in a limited government. in the context of the importance of that debate it doesn't matter to me if bruce and todd want to get married. that's the back burner. this is the baebt to be having right now. >> what's interesting is gingrich cares a great deal in front of this audience of same-sex marriage. >> exactly. that's why it's a window into the debate. >> i think it should be a right for people across the nation and we agree on that. different point on the political spectr spectrum. where are you on this? >> i'm not talking about it right now. >> running for office? >> no. i think that the economics is what's important. not those type of social issues. people i think will vote on -- for the person they think can take the country. voting pocketbooks. the right economic direction. >> here's a shocker. coming up, a new book offering proof that women make better spies, better investors and better gamblers than men. read it and weep, guys. we'll be right back with the author.

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welcome back. i'm joined by e.d. hill and dan abrams, founder of mediaheight.com and we know you have a book of why women are better at everything than men. i have to push back just a wee little back in a moment or two. first, your media expertise and wisdom on a story in the papers about glenn beck. >> yeah. "the new york times" did some crunching of numbers. glenn beck, radio show, tv

program, books. you know, the whole thing. >> yeah. >> and "the new york times" came up with he's losing viewers. >> it's clear he is. novelty has worn off a little bit. whatever you think of him, one of the most entertaining people on television and i think there's some people who have seen it now and there's not as much business. less -- sort of the same thing to some degree. how many times do you show the back blackboard and the puppets and interesting at the beginning and not as exciting anymore. i would say this. fox is sending him a message saying, look, sir, we'll be able to do without you and i think he is doing the same thing to them. hey, guys, you don't want to play, i can do without you. >> not saying one big negotiation over how much they're paying him? >> i think it is a negotiation. remember, glenn beck still starts off fox's prime time at 5:00 with big numbers. >> yeah. >> it is still -- he's still an

important part of fox's prime time lineup. >> is there a slightly deeper issue which is that you can only be apoapocalyptic for so long? >> mainstream conservatives come out against beck saying they don't buy a lot of what he is saying. has that hurt him in probably. i think it's probably hurt him within fox, as well. >> i mean, still, the guy's getting big numbers. losing numbers and still big numbers. in the article joel cheatwood in charge of sort of running the program said that keeping the show upbeat is something to work with beck on a lot and the more serious issue. it kind of gets depressing somebody telling you the world's going to end and nonstop and watching wolf and get the news and feel like there's something worth living for. >> there's something to that.

not that i'm not discounting that, i don't know that he's much more apoclaptic than he used to be. >> that's my point. >> can we talk to something else? >> i would love to. >> i'm looking at your book. >> you're brilliant, by the way. brilliant. >> thank you. >> looking over the chapters, things women are better at. >> called man down. proof, beyond a reasonable doubt that women are better spies, cops, world leaders, beer testers, hedge fund managers and just about everything else. >> i'm with you on one of them. women get ready faster than men to go out at night. >> right. >> did you -- is this based on what data sample? >> correct. >> i don't know how long you take. i'm in trouble going home perhaps. i don't buy this. >> you are a good lawyer. you went after the chapter i concede at the beginning with the least amount of evidence behind it. all right? now, this is a study, 2,000 people surveyed in england asked how long to take to get ready to

leave the house. only average, women 79 minutes. men 83 minutes. >> 83 minutes? >> showering. eliot -- >> to get ready to go out at night? never in my life. >> 20 minutes to moisturize, right? >> reading this thing. this is like the words -- i don't know. 83 -- all right. another one. >> that's one of the -- in terms of the evidence behind it, one of the weakest. >> better memories. women every time you say yore going to call and you don't we never forget. >> they have done tests and research, study after study that show not only remember words better, but that i remember faces better, as well. and they're able to put faces to names better and that translates into helping you in the working world, as well. >> everybody remembers what they want to remember. that's a fact of life. women less likely to be struck by lightning. >> 82% of lightning strikes of cur to men. why? they play the extra round of golf. they go up on the roof and want

to fix the antenna before the storm comes. >> okay. >> the studies show, this is just facts that men get hit by lightning more than women. >> this one i don't get. spies. women are better spies. we grew up with james bond. >> yeah. >> you know, going after the villains, getting the vixing. one in custody, the other one in bed. how can women be the better spies. >> a guy did an undercover study pretending to be a beautiful woman online and went at government employees. >> glad you clarified that, online. >> how much information to get from government employees. he could get men to give "her" so much information and another study in there that shows that men when are in the presence of a beautiful woman, their brains sort of melts. >> all right. >> and so, look. look. some of this is tongue in cheek. some of this is fun. but some of it relates to doctors and hedge fund hamanage

and world politicians and areas that are serious. >> read it and weep. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> we'll be right back. u'll nevr pick up a cigarette." i had to quit. ♪ my doctor gave me a prescription for chantix, a medication i could take and still smoke, while it built up in my system. [ male announcer ] chantix is a non-nicotine pill proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these symptoms or behaviors, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. if you develop serious allergic or skin reactions, stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away as some of these can be life-threatening. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it.

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simmered grandma's chicken noodle soup. melted tons of recycled glass. roasted millions of coffee beans. provided electricity for nearly 29 million home computers. heated your bathwater. cooked your takeout. lit your way home. we helped america import less of its energy. cleared the air by burning cleaner than other fuel sources, with less pollutants and no mercury. and tomorrow, we could do even more. we're cleaner, domestic, abundant and ready now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power today. learn more at anga.us. back to lib yeah. i want to show you what the battle actually looks like as the resistance of gadhafi fight over territory. this is the map of libya. gadhafi controls tripoli, the capital city in the west in green. benghazi in the east marked in

red. the strategy of the resistance to advance on tripoli, defeat gadhafi's forces and depose what remains of his government but the forces have tanks, helicopters and fighter jets while the resistance troops are poorly trained and poorly armed. hence, the constant call for assistance from the west. the opposition controls the eastern coast to ras lanuf. they're reportedly holding the city despite heavy assaults by gadhafi forces. meanwhile, gadhafis troops dug into bin jawad to the west. even if resistance troops take bin jawad the next obstacle is sirte and to the west of tripoli, some of the heaviest fighting in the city of zawiya, government forces led by gadhafi's son and elite militia are feiging the city with everything they have. the resistance claims it's in control and the people massacred by the brigade. so the vicious fighting continues and we can't begin to

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right after she left the state department, my next guest joined twitter and the second tweet -- she said, quote, the international community cannot stand by and watch the massacre of libyan protesters in rwanda. we watched in kosovo. we acted. these are the strong opinions that made her the first woman to have one of the most senior positions at the state department, head of policy planning. just returned to princeton. i wanted the find out what this consummate insider thinks we should be doing in libya and elsewhere in the world. welcome. >> thank you. great to be here. >> you came out in favor of the no-fly zone. why? how do you deal to the objections of the action? >> so i came out in favor of doing something. i mean, we're going to see absolutely horrific pictures when things are opened up, where

the towns that are right now experiencing real battles, we don't have people there who can send us pictures but we'll get absolutely horrific pictures and my point is we shouldn't wait the way we waited in rwanda. we should act. how we should act, a number of different ways. the best option is still a negotiated solution where gadhafi and his family leave. because that minimizes the bloodshed. he offered a deal today. >> the odds about 1 in a,000? >> i don't think so. >> greater than that? >> definitely. he's isolated, the money is tied up. being told -- not just him but him and his family. they face accountable. we know who they are. they're not going to be able to have a decent life when this is over. so there's a lot of pressure and a lot of isolation designed to force him out. >> despite the rhetoric of this is my homeland he could leave

and get him out to some distant land and he will be isolated and there -- >> definitely a possibility and as long as there's a possibility that's what we have to go for. >> come back to the no-fly zone. you are an international legal scholar. what's the legal foundation for permitting us to do that? >> so there are a couple of options. one, we can go to the u.n. and reports today britain and france approving a resolution. >> the russians will -- >> probably not -- >> next. cross that off the list. >> depends on what kind of pictures we see. i wouldn't rule this out. i think it is unlikely. second best, you actually recognize the transitional council that the libyans, the opposition set up as the defacto libyan gft. >> that's the easiest and surprised there's not a greater rush to do that. they have a real government and filled with legitimate, respected members of the libyan society.

why haven't we recognized them? >> so then you go back to what i said is the first best option. as long as there's an option to get him out, ends the bloodshed, gives us a chance to have a negotiated government, as long as there's a possibility, you don't recognize the other government. he's still the leader of libya. we have said we think he's lost the legitimacy. time to go. but we still have the ability diplomatically to engage in ways to try to get him out. >> okay. you wrote an article, this goes back to the early days of the obama administration. actually, before he was sworn in this foreign affairs in which you said america's edge, power in the network century and talked about interconnectedness, being the essence of power moving forward. you wrote about it, the context of the united states. did you -- could you have imagined, one of the few articles that talked about power this way and the foundation for power for the revolutions because they have capitalized on what you were writiing about in

that article. >> i did see that fundamentally in a -- at a world this interconnected you have to actually start taking the people, whether they're as protesters or many different guises as a huge factor and independent factor on the world stage and that's exactly what we are seeing here. we are seeing the ability of people to come together, supported from the outside, connected to people in this country and to around the world in a way that we can't just deal with the governments. we have to deal with the governments an enthe people at the same time. >> we have one minute left and ask you incredibly hard question. you have to answer it. i'm stuck and every day i look at what's going on in afghanistan. we have 140,000 troops. we're supporting karzai who's corrupt. i don't know why it doesn't seem to make progress. troops are dying on the field of battle and yet we can't do anything about an insurgent movement, a fight for liberation in lib yeah. is is there a tension there that bothers and should both earlu